tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7831518087498541513.post5298648496700095889..comments2023-05-06T02:39:25.916-07:00Comments on Debating the Anthrax Attacks of 2001: Feb. 5 - Feb. 11, 2012 DiscussionsEd Lakehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00517078636884309733noreply@blogger.comBlogger122125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7831518087498541513.post-71921882080194699552012-02-20T17:58:48.821-08:002012-02-20T17:58:48.821-08:00A song parody: sung to the tune of PETTICOAT JUNCT...A song parody: sung to the tune of PETTICOAT JUNCTION theme:<br />-------------------------<br />Monmouth Junction<br /><br />Come see the evidence that is there for all to see at the junction (Monmouth Junction!)<br /> <br /> Turn off your intellect, it is time to relax at the junction.<br />(Monmouth Junction!)<br /><br />Special pleadin', you bet. Even more when you get to the junction.<br />(Monmouth Junction!) <br /><br />There's an Ivins residence with a zip code you done met at the junction. ( Monmouth Junction!)<br /><br />It's been vacant quite a while but stay for a spell at the junction. (Monmouth Junction!)<br /><br />And that's Uncle Sam he's a PR man at the junction. (Monmouth Junction!)<br />---------------------------------------------------------<br />Thanks to Paul Henning and Curt Massey!<br />http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/televisiontvthemelyrics-50s60s70s/petticoatjunction.htmr. rowleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7831518087498541513.post-57728177287896866372012-02-18T07:03:52.154-08:002012-02-18T07:03:52.154-08:00Richard Rowley wrote: "You are pre-disposed t...Richard Rowley wrote: <i>"You are pre-disposed to interpret each and every fact in the worst light possible vis-a-vis Ivins. Anonymous and I are not.</i><br /><br />No. The evidence is overwhelming. But, it's also a VERY complex case and some details aren't fully explained in FBI documents. So, some things can be easily misinterpreted or misunderstood.<br /><br />You and Anonymous each have your own individual theory. You don't agree on who did it, you only agree that the FBI <b><i>must</i></b> be wrong, because if the FBI is right, then BOTH of you are wrong.<br /><br />You can't believe that BOTH of you can be wrong, but you ignore the fact that you do not agree on who did it, so, by your own reasoning, <b>one of you MUST be wrong</b>. <br /><br />You don't argue with each other. You only argue with the FBI's findings (via me, since I agree with most of the FBI's findings) because you can get a lot of support from other people <b>with other theories</b> who also agree that the FBI <b>must</b> be wrong.<br /><br />So, we've got hundreds of people, each with his or her own unique theory, all arguing that the FBI is wrong. And each of them thinks that because so many people believe the FBI is wrong that makes it so.<br /><br /><b>But you don't agree with each other.</b> It's hundreds of individuals, each with a unique theory that says everyone else in the world except that one individual must be wrong. <br /><br />It's lunacy. It's some kind of anti-authority mental condition.<br /><br />But, it's also just the basic Freudian condition known as "denial." You each firmly believe something even though you have no real proof to support your belief, and you ignore all of the overwhelming evidence that says you're wrong. And, you get support from others who are also in "denial" but who agree that the government is wrong, while you all ignore the fact that you don't agree on anything else.<br /><br />It's a fascinating phenomenon. <br /><br />EdEd Lakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00517078636884309733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7831518087498541513.post-86327928260653689082012-02-17T16:56:06.122-08:002012-02-17T16:56:06.122-08:00Partial post by Mister Lake:
---------------------...Partial post by Mister Lake:<br />--------------------------------<br />No. Originally I thought the connection between Ivins and the ZIP code was that Ivins' father's ancestors were born in Monmouth Junction.<br />===============================================================<br />AND you thought that this was logically connected to Ivins' guilt.<br />---------------------------------------------------------------<br />Then Anonymous corrected me and pointed out that the connection to Ivins is the fact that his ancestors were born in an area of New Jersey that his ancestors called "Monmouth," but which no longer uses that name. Plus, even farther back, Ivins' ancestors came from "Monmouthshire, in Wales.<br /><br />And, in re-reading the EBAP report I see that it's really all about how Ivins had connections to places called "Monmouth" and the Kappa Kappa Gamma with which Ivins was obsessed also had connections to places called "Monmouth."<br /><br />It's a clarification of Ivins' motives for using that ZIP code. I misunderstood a connection, then I was corrected and shown what the connection really was. It's called learning.<br />===============================================================<br />And AGAIN you see that as logically connected to Ivins' guilt.<br />But Anonymous, the one correcting you, does NOT see it as logically connected to Ivins' guilt. So it OBVIOUSLY isn't just a matter a knowing the "facts" in the case.<br /><br />You are pre-disposed to interpret each and every fact in the worst light possible vis-a-vis Ivins. Anonymous and I are not.<br /><br />You (and the Task Force) are like some pea-soup thick fog: you can envelope any set of facts and still keep on going in the same direction: "Bruce Ivins, acting alone, yadda yadda......"r. rowleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7831518087498541513.post-29671649546440387562012-02-17T13:28:29.659-08:002012-02-17T13:28:29.659-08:00Richard Rowley wrote: "ORIGINALLY, it's ...Richard Rowley wrote: <i>"ORIGINALLY, it's Monmouth Junction. And THAT indicates Ivins did it. Then it's another Monmouth but BOTH had the word "Monmouth" in them, so THAT indicates Ivins did it"</i><br /><br />No. Originally I thought the connection between Ivins and the ZIP code was that Ivins' father's ancestors were born in Monmouth Junction.<br /><br />Then Anonymous corrected me and pointed out that the connection to Ivins is the fact that his ancestors were born in an area of New Jersey that his ancestors called "Monmouth," but which no longer uses that name. Plus, even farther back, Ivins' ancestors came from "<b>Monmouth</b>shire, in Wales.<br /><br />And, in re-reading the EBAP report I see that it's really all about how Ivins had connections to places called "Monmouth" and the Kappa Kappa Gamma with which Ivins was obsessed <b>also</b> had connections to places called "Monmouth."<br /><br />It's a clarification of Ivins' motives for using that ZIP code. I misunderstood a connection, then I was corrected and shown what the connection really was. It's called <b>learning</b>.<br /><br />It makes sense either way, but I definitely prefer that it make sense <b>and also be correct</b>.<br /><br />And, the fact that you don't see how impressive it would be to a jury as part of the explanations for all of Ivins' secret code writings just shows that you cannot accept any evidence that contradicts your beliefs.<br /><br />EdEd Lakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00517078636884309733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7831518087498541513.post-79400926117415145792012-02-17T11:37:35.020-08:002012-02-17T11:37:35.020-08:00Partial post by Mister Lake:
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Ri...Partial post by Mister Lake:<br />------------------<br />Richard Rowley wrote: "Such is the power of auto-suggestion."<br /><br />You're ignoring the fact that, until Anonymous showed me where I was wrong, I thought that the ZIP code was for the town where Ivins' father's ancestors were born. But, Ivins' ancestors weren't born anywhere near Monmouth Junction, NJ. They were born in an area which they called "Monmouth," probably because they came from Monmouthshire, Wales. But, the New Jersey area never officially had such a name.[...]<br />============================================================<br />I read the WHOLE exchange. That's what's behind my comment.<br />ORIGINALLY, it's Monmouth Junction. And THAT indicates Ivins did it. Then it's another Monmouth but BOTH had the word "Monmouth" in them, so THAT indicates Ivins did it. Since about December of 2008, you've lost all sense of proportion in your Ivins-did-it mania, never more evident than in this eye-popping statement:<br />---------------------------------------<br />You may think it's just a coincidence and has no more meaning than the fact that there's also a Monmouth in Oregon, but in court all the connections between Ivins and places called "Monmouth" would be VERY impressive. They would see virtually no possibility of a coincidence.<br />==============================================================<br />Auto-suggestion followed by projection.r. rowleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7831518087498541513.post-28374044942787572872012-02-17T07:30:17.552-08:002012-02-17T07:30:17.552-08:00Richard Rowley wrote: "Such is the power of a...Richard Rowley wrote: <i>"Such is the power of auto-suggestion."</i><br /><br />You're ignoring the fact that, until Anonymous showed me where I was wrong, I thought that the ZIP code was for the town where Ivins' father's ancestors were born. But, Ivins' ancestors weren't born anywhere near Monmouth Junction, NJ. They were born in an area which <b>they</b> called "Monmouth," probably because they came from <b>Monmouth</b>shire, Wales. But, the New Jersey area never officially had such a name.<br /><br />I wasn't even aware of any connection to <b>Monmouth</b>shire, Wales, until Anonymous pointed it out.<br /><br />You may think it's just a coincidence and has no more meaning than the fact that there's also a Monmouth in Oregon, but in court all the connections between Ivins and places called "Monmouth" would be VERY impressive. They would see virtually no possibility of a coincidence.<br /><br />But, I know you have a different theory and you have no real proof to support your own theory, so you MUST disbelieve all the evidence against Ivins in order to continue to believe your own theory. That's a well-documented and very common psychological condition. It's called "denial," a total refusal to accept the evidence.<br /><br />EdEd Lakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00517078636884309733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7831518087498541513.post-51867358942665580612012-02-17T06:12:45.942-08:002012-02-17T06:12:45.942-08:00Partial post by Mister Lake:
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Or as ...Partial post by Mister Lake:<br />--------------<br />Or as I'd phrase it, Ivins used the ZIP code for Monmouth Junction because the name of that town included the word "Monmouth," and "Monmouth" connected him and his ancestors to the KKG sorority, since KKG was founded in Monmouth, IL.<br /><br />It was his way of coding things into his letters, and, as the report says, it was - in effect - his signature.<br /><br />If you have a copy of the 1986 letter from Ivins' paternal relative and can disprove these conclusions from the EBAP, let's see it.<br /><br />Until then, I think all those "Monmouth" connections meant something to Ivins,[...]<br />=============================================================<br />Such is the power of auto-suggestion.r. rowleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7831518087498541513.post-81622870774587036092012-02-16T22:09:45.030-08:002012-02-16T22:09:45.030-08:00From WAY back, quoting the shrinks who never exami...From WAY back, quoting the shrinks who never examined Ivins:<br />--------------------<br />By using the ZIP code of Monmouth Junction, Dr. Ivins may have been<br /><br />portraying in code the connection between KKG and his own identity.<br /><br />Monmouth Junction may have represented the union of father<br /><br />(Monmouth, N.J.) and mother (Monmouth College, KKG), i.e., himself.<br />=================================================<br />How very Freudian! Maybe he had a 'Monmouth Complex', eh? Speaking of 'eh?'....<br /><br />In looking at an atlas tonight I discovered that British Columbia has a Monmouth AND Oregon does too, so if the authorities have ANY unsolved murders in those localities, I suggest they 'solve' them forthwith by doing the implausible psychobabble thing with Ivins. Not only does that 'solve' the cases (wink, wink) but it bypasses yucky stuff like due process, admissibility, probability and common sense. Just a sardonic thought.r. rowleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7831518087498541513.post-32935394822129340952012-02-16T07:17:46.296-08:002012-02-16T07:17:46.296-08:00Anonymous wrote (quoting me): ""it would...Anonymous wrote (quoting me): <i>""it would just be that the EBAP report misstated what was in the letter."</i><br /><br />Right, but until you <b>prove</b> that what the EBAP report stated about the August 26, 1986 letter was a misstatement, there is no reason to believe that the EBAP report is incorrect.<br /><br />And, more importantly, if the letter <b>did</b> say that Ivins distant relatives came from Momouthshire, Wales, and not from "Monmouth, N.j.," it still shows Ivins' connections to "Monmouth." <br /><br /><b>Monmouth</b> College - where the KKG sorority was founded.<br /><b>Monmouth</b>, IL - where Monmouth college was located.<br /><b>Monmouth</b>, N.J - which the EBAP mentions.<br /><b>Monmouth</b>shire, Wales - which "Anonymous" mentions<br /><b>Monmouth</b> Junction, N.J. - the ZIP code on the senate letters<br /><br />Ivins was "signing" the letter with a code that showed a connection between himself and the KKG sorority. It was the type of game Ivins liked to play to show he was smarter than everyone else and could fool them without them ever realizing it.<br /><br />But, in this case, people realized it. <br /><br />EdEd Lakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00517078636884309733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7831518087498541513.post-51229971828884609032012-02-16T06:49:17.546-08:002012-02-16T06:49:17.546-08:00Ed Lake writes:
"it would just be that the E...Ed Lake writes:<br /><br />"it would just be that the EBAP report misstated what was in the letter."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7831518087498541513.post-61487066645796152622012-02-15T14:01:46.597-08:002012-02-15T14:01:46.597-08:00Anonymous,
Actually, Monmouthshire,Wales, is anot...Anonymous,<br /><br />Actually, Monmouthshire,Wales, is another "Monmouth" connection to Ivins. So, even if the letter from his paternal relative said "Monmouthshire, Wales" instead of "Monmouth, N.J." as the EBAP report says it said, <b>the <i>connection</i> is still there</b>, it would just be that the EBAP report misstated what was in the letter.<br /><br />EdEd Lakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00517078636884309733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7831518087498541513.post-41403902446689934572012-02-15T13:54:07.397-08:002012-02-15T13:54:07.397-08:00Anonymous wrote: ""To the contrary, the ...Anonymous wrote: "<i>"To the contrary, the letter said his ancestors were from Monmouthshire, Wales."</i><br /><br />You have the August 26, 1986 letter from his "paternal relative"?<br /><br />Why haven't you posted it somewhere? Why are you writing meaningless information about ancestry.com? Are you saying the letter is on that site?<br /><br />Let's see the letter. Then I'll acknowledge that the EBAP report is wrong.<br /><br />This is from pages 129 and 130 of the EBAP report:<br /><br /><b>On his father’s side, as we’ve noted, and as Dr. Ivins knew, the Ivins family came from Monmouth, N.J. (Note: Monmouth County, N.J. does not contain a municipality by that name; whether the Ivins family records that Dr. Ivins kept refer to the county or a farm community is unclear; regardless, they refer to “Monmouth, N.J.”) KKG, as also discussed, was founded at Monmouth College in Monmouth, Ill. <br /><br />Dr. Ivins did not use the ZIP code of either of these places, however, because doing so would not have demonstrated the link between them. Code lover that he was, he appears to have come up with something much richer.<br /><br />Dr. Ivins felt that his own identity, aspirations and resentments, were entwined in KKG. His decades of obsession demonstrated that entanglement.<br /><br />By using the ZIP code of Monmouth Junction, Dr. Ivins may have been portraying in code the connection between KKG and his own identity. Monmouth Junction may have represented the union of father (Monmouth, N.J.) and mother (Monmouth College, KKG), i.e., himself. And it also represented his entanglement, his obsession with KKG.<br /><br />In other words, in two inter-related ways, the Monmouth Junction may have represented Dr. Ivins himself. With the return address on his Senatorial letters, he appears to have revealed the identity — at the deepest level — of the mailer. Dr. Ivins, in short, signed his letters.</b><br /><br />Or as I'd phrase it, Ivins used the ZIP code for Monmouth Junction because the name of that town included the word "Monmouth," and "Monmouth" connected him and his ancestors to the KKG sorority, since KKG was founded in Monmouth, IL.<br /><br />It was his way of coding things into his letters, and, as the report says, it was - in effect - his signature.<br /><br />If you have a copy of the 1986 letter from Ivins' paternal relative and can disprove these conclusions from the EBAP, let's see it.<br /><br />Until then, I think all those "Monmouth" connections meant <b>something</b> to Ivins, and there is no doubt that the senate letters had the ZIP code for Monmouth Junction.<br /><br />Ed <br /><br />----------Ed Lakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00517078636884309733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7831518087498541513.post-67251388017453105692012-02-15T13:41:54.394-08:002012-02-15T13:41:54.394-08:00To the contrary, the letter said his ancestors wer...To the contrary, the letter said his ancestors were from Monmouthshire, Wales. Let me guess. You didn't sign up for the 14 week free trial at ancestry.com.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7831518087498541513.post-20122793880463387372012-02-15T13:11:54.413-08:002012-02-15T13:11:54.413-08:00Anonymous wrote: "There are 134 place names i...Anonymous wrote: <i>"There are 134 place names in the United States and Dr. Ivins' father and ancestors were not from any of them"</i><br /><br /><b>You're <i>still</i> missing the point!</b> It doesn't make any difference where "Monmouth" was or who was born there or who wasn't born there!!<br /><br />The only important fact is that the letter Ivins had in his possession <b>said</b> that his ancestors were born in Monmouth, N.J. <b>That means that is what Ivins knew or believed.</b> And <b>it's what Ivins believed that relates to why he used the ZIP code for Monmouth Junction.</b><br /><br />It's all explained in the EBAP report. You are arguing something that <b>doesn't matter</b> to anyone but you.<br /><br />I previously made the same mistake. <b>But you pointed out my mistake.</b> It's not about where anyone was born, it's about what Ivins believed and why he used that ZIP code.<br /><br />EdEd Lakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00517078636884309733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7831518087498541513.post-49006585221976235912012-02-15T13:03:27.106-08:002012-02-15T13:03:27.106-08:00There are 134 place names in the United States and...There are 134 place names in the United States and Dr. Ivins' father and ancestors were not from any of them -- to include Monmouth, NJ. I take it you were never in the National Geographic geographic bee.<br /><br />http://geonames.usgs.gov/pls/gnispublic/f?p=129:2:278981474174754:pg_R_49919549018705442451:NO&pg_min_row=76&pg_max_rows=15&pg_rows_fetched=15Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7831518087498541513.post-15161416513258684752012-02-15T09:07:32.257-08:002012-02-15T09:07:32.257-08:00Anonymous wrote: "You confuse data with claim...Anonymous wrote: <i>"You confuse data with claims."</i><br /><br />No, you argue that the data is nothing but claims. You need to prove that instead of just claiming it.<br /><br />EdEd Lakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00517078636884309733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7831518087498541513.post-8041949752428317982012-02-15T08:22:03.618-08:002012-02-15T08:22:03.618-08:00Anonymous,
I also deleted your comment about the ...Anonymous,<br /><br />I also deleted your comment about the way you think others should have handled some information about Hatfill. <br /><br />That's preaching to others to do things your way because it's the only correct way. This forum is not for your preachings.<br /><br />EdEd Lakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00517078636884309733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7831518087498541513.post-6038686755818136532012-02-15T08:18:57.584-08:002012-02-15T08:18:57.584-08:00Anonymous wrote: "Ed cites no support whatsoe...Anonymous wrote: <i>"Ed cites no support whatsoever for the proposition that the birthplace of Ivins Dad were from some place known as Monmouth, NJ." </i><br /><br />I cited the <b>exact</b> source. You just don't accept the source.<br /><br /><i>"And yet he alleges it as an established fact."</i><br /><br />No, <b>I don't.</b> I mention it as information from a letter Ivins had in his possession. <br /><br />If you do not believe the letter exists, that's your problem. If you think the letter says something other than what is in the EBAP report, that's your problem.<br /><br />You are doing a NEW investigation. You make noise like an INVESTIGATOR. I'm not doing an investigation. I'm analyzing data. And, I see no problem with the data. The fact that you disagree with the data isn't a problem for me, it's a problem for you.<br /><br />Also, I deleted your second nonsensical post about the supposed "key witness" that you rant so endlessly about. You've already mentioned it in this post, there's no need to repeat it.<br /><br />EdEd Lakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00517078636884309733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7831518087498541513.post-83109492408624181472012-02-15T08:04:29.842-08:002012-02-15T08:04:29.842-08:00I sent Ed Lake an extensive link of historical map...I sent Ed Lake an extensive link of historical maps and contact information for an expert on the genealogy of Dr. Ivins' line.<br /><br />http://mapmaker.rutgers.edu/MAPS.html<br /><br />Rather than being able to cite any support for the psychiatrist's claim, he merely credits it. <br /><br />And that is precisely the problem. He merely accepts Rachel Lieber's claim and the psychiatrists claim without checking it.<br /><br />For example, I point out that a key witness they rely upon reported in a 2009 book that she was controlled by an alien who had implanted a microchip in her butt -- and thought her patients were controlled by murderous astral entities (see her July 2007 story about Dr. Ivins' murderous plot)... And he didn't even read the book! It conflicted with his beliefs.<br /><br />Instead, he merely accepts claims and repeats the woman's claim as evidence of murder of 5 people -- considering the claims as evidence. <br /><br />Ed cites no support whatsoever for the proposition that the birthplace of Ivins Dad were from some place known as Monmouth, NJ. And yet he alleges it as an established fact. To the contrary, until he is able to corroborate it with a citation to evidence, it merely is established that the USG consultants relied upon the issue in assessing an Ivins Theory. <br /><br />Dr. Ivins family came from Monmmouthshire, Wales.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7831518087498541513.post-23630724661818808422012-02-15T07:27:52.096-08:002012-02-15T07:27:52.096-08:00Anonymous,
I can see that item #14 in "The C...Anonymous,<br /><br />I can see that item #14 in "The Case against Ivins" on my site still wasn't precise enough. So, I've changed it to read:<br /><br /><b>14. He had various connections to the New Jersey area where the anthrax letters were mailed. The ZIP Code used in the return address on the senate letters was 08852. It belongs to Monmouth Junction, NJ. According to a letter in Ivins' files, his ancestors on his father's side came from an area then known as Monmouth, NJ. Plus, Monmouth College in Monmouth, IL, is where the Kappa Kappa Gamma sorority (an obsession of Ivins') was founded.</b><br /><br />EdEd Lakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00517078636884309733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7831518087498541513.post-21665192358857233822012-02-15T07:08:21.545-08:002012-02-15T07:08:21.545-08:00Anonymous wrote: "What is your authority for ...Anonymous wrote: <i>"What is your authority for the proposition that it was known as Monmouth?"</i><br /><br />You need to do better research and get your facts straight. The <b>secondary</b> source is the EBAP report (click <a href="http://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/dcd/sites/dcd/files/unsealedDoc031011.pdf" rel="nofollow">HERE</a> to view it) which says on page 45:<br /><br /><b>The Ivins family traces its American roots to 17th century New Jersey. Bruce Ivins’ great-great-grandfather Thomas Ivins was born in what was then known as Monmouth, N.J., before moving to Ohio in the 19th century.<br /><br />For reasons whose significance will become clear later in this narrative, it is important to note that Bruce Ivins was aware of this family genealogy. In a file where he kept important papers, he saved a letter, dated August 26, 1986, from a paternal relative. This letter specifically related the genealogy of the Ivins family, and listed Thomas Ivins and his father, Barzillai, whose ancestors had also been born in Monmouth, N.J.</b><br /><br />And, on page 129 of the EBAP it says:<br /><br /><b>On his father’s side, as we’ve noted, and as Dr. Ivins knew, the Ivins family came from Monmouth, N.J. (Note: Monmouth County, N.J. does not contain a municipality by that name; whether the Ivins family records that Dr. Ivins kept refer to the county or a farm community is unclear; regardless, they refer to “Monmouth, N.J.”)</b><br /><br />The primary source, therefore would be the August 26, 1986 letter. It specifically says "Monmouth, N.J."<br /><br />If you need to see the letter, you should contact the FBI.<br /><br />If the letter says that Thomas Ivins and his father were both born in <b>what was then known as</b> Monmouth, N.J., then it doesn't really matter what current maps say. All that matters is <b>what Ivins believed</b> and what was in the letter.<br /><br />I'm making <b>no</b> claims. I'm just analyzing the data. <b>YOU are making claims that the letter is wrong.</b><br /><br />I have no reason to doubt what is in the letter. If you do, then complain to whoever wrote the letter.<br /><br />BTW, page 91 of FBI file #847447 mentions an envelope found during the November 1-2, 2007 search of Ivins' home. The envelope was labeled "Family Tree" and contained various clippings. There is no mention of a letter, but that's where it may have been. There is no copy of the letter in that file.<br /><br />EdEd Lakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00517078636884309733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7831518087498541513.post-32797493176456542402012-02-14T16:07:49.117-08:002012-02-14T16:07:49.117-08:00As I said above, you cite no factual support for t...As I said above, you cite no factual support for the claim that the locality Dr. Ivins' was born or from was formerly known as Monmouth. Same for his paternal ancestors. The history of New Hanover Township and Mansfield Township is easily accessed as are historical maps. You are entitled to your opinions but not to your own facts. I've urged that you cite and upload any support for your claims and you failed to do so. <br /><br />I've asked you for the factual authority for your claim and you cite none -- other than point out that it the position of the psychiatrists. But that is precisely the point. They relied on the point and yet you can cite no factual support. <br /><br />I told you that you would not correct your page but would just rationalize the issue -- which is exactly what you did.<br /><br />Mansfield Township is a Township in Burlington County, New Jersey, United States. As of the United States 2000 Census, the township population was 5,090, which was forecast to have grown to 8,047 as of the 2006 Census estimate, representing growth of 58.1% since the previous enumeration.<br /><br />Mansfield was first formed on November 6, 1688, and reformed by Royal Charter on May 9, 1770. Mansfield was incorporated as one of New Jersey's initial 104 townships by an Act of the New Jersey Legislature on February 21, 1798. Portions of the township were taken to form Fieldsboro (March 7, 1850, within township; became fully independent c. 1894), Bordentown Township (March 8, 1852) and Florence Township (March 7, 1872).<br /><br />You need to do better research and stop making unsupported claims.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7831518087498541513.post-20774817361439793542012-02-14T15:51:51.474-08:002012-02-14T15:51:51.474-08:00Ed, what facts are you relying on?
New Hanover ...Ed, what facts are you relying on? <br /><br />New Hanover Township is a Township in Burlington County, New Jersey, United States. As of the United States 2000 Census, the township population was 9,744. The township is located in the Delaware Valley.<br /><br />New Hanover was originally formed by Royal Charter on December 2, 1723, from portions of Chesterfield Township and Springfield Township. New Hanover was incorporated as one of New Jersey's initial 104 townships by an Act of the New Jersey Legislature on February 21, 1798. Portions of the township were taken to form Pemberton borough (December 15, 1826), Pemberton Township (March 10, 1846), North Hanover Township (April 12, 1905) and Wrightstown (March 4, 1918).[5]Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7831518087498541513.post-87000182383680528612012-02-14T15:28:09.947-08:002012-02-14T15:28:09.947-08:00Ed,
What is your authority for the proposition th...Ed,<br /><br />What is your authority for the proposition that it was known as Monmouth? What is your citation? As a genealogical hobbyist myself, I can assure you that the way that it works is that if you make a factual claim about geography or such you support it with a citation to an authoritative source.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7831518087498541513.post-54132997700512469482012-02-14T13:59:08.356-08:002012-02-14T13:59:08.356-08:00Anonymous,
All that needed to be said to point ou...Anonymous,<br /><br />All that needed to be said to point out the error I made in item #14 of "The Case against Ivins" was to say, "Ivins family did NOT come from Monmouth Junction, NJ, they came from an area that was <b>once known</b> as Monmouth, NJ, which is nowhere near Monmouth Junction." And the EBAP report could have been cited as an authority.<br /><br />I would have fixed the error immediately.<br /><br />But, instead, you bury the information inside a mountain of rantings and sermons about how you don't believe the EBAP, how they don't use experts you approve of, how I don't make the corrections you point out, how I don't do things they way you think they should be done, etc., etc., etc., etc.<br /><br />I appreciate being advised of the error, but you might try being more concise and precise in the future.<br /><br />EdEd Lakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00517078636884309733noreply@blogger.com