While waiting for the agent who has my book to tell me what she thinks of it, I've been working on a new supplemental page for my web site. The new page is titled "The illogical al Qaeda Theory." It shows that no two people with an "al Qaeda Theory" about the anthrax case have exactly the same theory. Some believe the anthrax was made in a lab in Afghanistan. Some believe it was made in a lab at George Mason University. Or maybe it was made in a lab in Canada. It doesn't make any difference to these theorists that they don't agree with each other, or that the facts say that all their theories are wrong.
Meanwhile, since Richard Rowley resorted to personal insults in his posts to this blog, I'll be deleting any new posts he attempts to make -- unless he discusses the facts of the case instead of his beliefs.
And, "Anonymous" seems to be working another case these days - an art theft case. He evidently thinks his experience in determining that al Qaeda was behind the anthrax attacks gives him good experience to work on this new case.
I'm waiting on some pictures from the FBI that I want to use in my book. I'm also waiting on some pictures from USAMRIID. I'm waiting on the FBI to release Ivins' personal emails. And, as stated above, I'm waiting on a response from the literary agent who is reading my book.
Waiting is really really really hard work.
Ed
Hello Mr Lake:
ReplyDelete+ I found two links related to the profile of a murderer:
http://criminalminds.wikia.com/wiki/John_Douglas
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/04/opinion/profile-of-a-killer.html?src=pm
+ The second link is related to the anthrax murderer: "Profile Of a Killer" by NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF, published: January 04, 2002, New York Times Articles.... and begins the journalist writing this:
"I think I know who sent out the anthrax last fall."
+ So, you continue to feel the same about the art of criminal profiling?
bye.
Another example of your approach is the issue of cropdusters. You do not mention that the CIA concluded that the inquiries about cropdusters was for the purpose of a plan to disperse anthrax aerially.
ReplyDeleteThe CIA is not saying that hundreds of pounds of anthrax had already been produced -- and you would know that if you read the CIA"s analysis.
If you read the relevant history -- you would know that such mailed letters was not merely the modus operandi -- it was their signature. See Al Hayat letter bombs.
And you talk about tours of USAMRIID when in fact Bruce Ivins GAVE virulent Ames to a former Zawahiri associate as part of research that was conducted at the BL-3 at USAMRIID. As part of his official duties. As evidenced by numerous patents by the DARPA-funded researchers.
Tarek Hamouda thanked Patricia Fellows, Dr. Ivins' chief accuser, for her technical assistance and thanked Bruce Ivins for supplying the Ames.
You just don't read material that does not support your insistence that a First Grader wrote the letters. You haven't even read Laurie Garrett's book which I offered to send you for free. That, without more, disqualifies you from addressing the subject.
You reason from the fact that the handwriting looks like the person just learned English that a First Grader wrote the letter. Any book agent could tell you that does not pass the giggle test.
Feel free to spend another 10 years making the argument but no publisher would ever go near the totally unsupported argument. You lack common sense.
The suitcase that caused the gash on the hijacker's leg that led to the leg lesion could have been holding his dirty laundry for all that it matters -- the point is that he was at Kandahar where Yazid Sufaat tells me he was working with the virulent anthrax.
You try to create anomalies by not addressing the underlying facts and mischaracterizing arguments.
For example, you express no interest in what strain of anthrax was used to make the dried anthrax powder that was seized and was subject to the charge at Guantanamo.
Joseph from Spain asked, "So, you continue to feel the same about the art of criminal profiling?"
ReplyDeleteOf course. All that Nicholas Kristof did was repeat what Barbara Hatch Rosenberg told him about Steven Hatfill. Kristof isn't a profiler. He's a newspaper columnist. As I recall, he later admitted he was wrong and apologized to Hatfill.
And the article about John Douglas says nothing that changes anything.
Ed
As widely reported in the press, the investigators were confident that Hatfill was the guy. FBI Director Mueller was also. Source as to FBI: Agent Montooth interview reported by Mr. Willman in his book. In contrast, as to your theory for 7 years, FBI Director Mueller dismissed as "baloney" on or about December 21, 2001.
DeleteSo what? FBI Director Mueller dismissed your al Qaeda theory as nonsense in 2001, and it's been proved to be nonsense. But you still believe it.
DeleteI didn't have all the facts in 2001. When more facts where made public, I altered my analysis of the case accordingly. I would have altered it years earlier, but the FBI was keeping the facts confidential.
And, I was saying the Hatfill theory was "baloney" for five years while all sorts of "experts" disagreed. Now we know that at least a few people in the FBI thought that Hatfill was the culprit, too.
The point here is: The FACTS prove that Bruce Ivins was the anthrax killer. It took a long time to collect those facts. So, what people believed before all the facts were made public is unimportant.
However, if they still believe some other theory in spite of the facts, then they need to have their head examined.
Ed
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteYou try to create anomalies by not addressing the underlying facts and mischaracterizing arguments.
It was the mutations in flask RMR-1029 that led to Bruce Ivins, not the Ames strain itself.
The fact that someone had the Ames strain is irrelevant if they didn't specifically have access to spores from flask RMR-1029. So, you do not address the facts and you mischaracterize arguments. You suggest there are anomalies where there are no anomalies. You try to mislead people into believing you have evidence. But, you have no evidence. All you have is a misunderstanding of the facts of the case and a BELIEF that you know more than others know.
Sending bombs by mail bombs is not the same thing as sending anthrax by mail. One minute you argue that the reason there was medical advice in the anthrax letters was because using anthrax would "violate the hadiths," and the next minute you argue that sending anthrax through the mails is no different than sending bombs through the mails.
If someone at the CIA wrote a report that IMAGINED that the 9/11 hijackers were looking at crop dusters because al Qaeda planned to use a crop duster to spray anthrax, someone else at the CIA probably wrote a report saying the crop duster was going to be filled with gasoline and used as a flying bomb. Analysts look at possibilities and weigh the possibilities. That doesn't mean they know anything to be true.
Ed
No, Ed. The mutations only narrowed the field from 700 to 200-300 known to have had direct access. Any number of issues were equally limiting. And of course once anyone has access it can be given to or taken by someone else. And the same people at USAMRIID had access to both morphs and non-morphs. For example, in the Special Pathogens lab, the virulent Ames was kept in a tupperware container in an unlocked refrigerator by the people who made a dried powder out of it for DARPA.
DeleteYour most fundamental error in reasoning is that you fail to grasp the self-reporting by suspects that was involved here. There was voluntary submission of samples. Indeed, if none was kept after the mailing, then there was none to submit. Or if 5 ml was thrown out by Pat upon a scientist leaving USAMRIID -- such as Dr. Ivins suggested occurred in his email to Pat -- it was not available to be submitted.
Anonymous,
DeleteYour most fundamental error in reasoning is that you fail to grasp that investigators have to follow the evidence.
You can fantasize that it is possible that someone could have had an undocumented sample from flask RMR-1029. But, without evidence it is just a fantasy.
You can fantasize that it is possible that someone with access to flask RMR-1029 could have taken a sample and made the powders without leaving any evidence, but without evidence it is just a fantasy.
The Amerithrax investigation is about FACTS AND EVIDENCE, not about your fantasies.
The FACTS say that Bruce Ivins was the anthrax mailer. Your FANTASIES are just FANTASIES.
Ed
Anonymous wrote: "Tarek Hamouda thanked Patricia Fellows, Dr. Ivins' chief accuser, for her technical assistance and thanked Bruce Ivins for supplying the Ames."
ReplyDeleteYou argue HERE that Hamouda visited USAMRIID in May of 1998. But, the records for flask RMR-1029 HERE show that the first sample taken from flask RMR-1029 was just 1 milligram removed on September 17, 1998.
So, the FACTS say that if a sample of Ames was given to Hamouda, it was NOT a sample from flask RMR-1029. It would have been a sample from the original slants or from a growth produced from the original slants.
If you would look at ALL THE FACTS and not just at the details you can twist and distort to fit your BELIEFS, you'd avoid wasting so much time by arguing nonsense.
Ed
Ed,
Delete1. Flask 1029 was created in 1997.
2. Transfers made at USAMRIID were not recorded. See documents and Dr. Ivins explanation.
You have a singularly incurious mind. You don't ask the relevant questions. You dismiss Dr. Dillon's points about a scientist convicted of sedition coordinating with Anwar Awlaki who shared a suite with the leading Ames researchers.
You dismiss the point even after I have told you that AUSA Lieber was forbidden by a supervisor from visiting Ali Al-Timimi because a deal had been cut. A serious researcher, in contrast, would contact the relevant scientists and ask: What strain was used by Southern Research Institute in Frederick under its subcontract with the DARPA-funded researchers? Those researchers sharing a suite with the convicted seditionist coordinating with Awlaki who urges a bioattack on the US co-invented in March 2001 a patent that concentrated anthrax by growing it in silica. As to the strain, you could ask Tom Voss in Louisiana. Dave Franz. Paul Keim. And on the issue of morphs, you could inquire as to the precise source of the virulent Ames.
But you don't. Because you are not interested in pursuing any theories other than that the person who first learned English must have been a First Grader. If you are correct about the handwriting, under the evidence the more reasonable hypothesis was that the writer was someone trained by KSM the previous month in English. It was Dr. Ayman who was planning to attack the US with anthrax in retaliation for the rendering and mistreatment of EIJ leaders (to include his brother and Blind Sheikh Abdel-Rahman). It was EIJ/Vanguards of Conquest that was responsible for the Al Hayat letter bombs to DC and NYC media outlets and politicians.
I've modified my web page about "The Illogical al Qaeda Theory" to reflect the fact that Hamouda allegedly got his sample of Ames in May 1998 and the first sample taken from flask RMR-1029 didn't happen until September 17, 1998.
DeleteEd
Anonymous wrote: "1. Flask 1029 was created in 1997."
DeleteActually, Receipt Material Record 1029 was created in 1997. Originally, the 1000 milliliters were divided between TWO flasks. It wasn't until about half was used up that the contents of the TWO flasks were combined into one flask.
The first milliliter was used on September 17, 1998. That reduced the quantity from 1000 milliliters to 999 milliliters.
Any use prior to September 17, 1998 is fantasy.
You're arguing that samples were taken without reducing the quantity. That's ridiculous. You are just taking a comment out of context and distorting it to make it fit your beliefs.
The FACTS say that all samples taken from flask RMR-1029 were recorded on the log.
Ed
Dr. Ivins explained that it was NOT standard practice to record such transfers when done at USAMRIID. Yet Ed Lake pretends that it was. He needs to inform himself of the documents and make relevant inquiry so as to avoid error. The DARPA-funded researchers could explain the precise source of that Ames -- so that one might infer whether it had 4 morphs or didn't. I have long urged interviews of Patricia Fellows, Mara Linscott, Dr. Hamouda, and/or Michael Hayes toward that end. I interviewed Michael briefly and he only said "You don't want to know." I contacted Dr. Hamouda and he did not respond. I dutifully reported all that Dr. James Baker explained.
ReplyDeleteAs for Patricia and Mara, they have not be identified. Their names are redacted. And their civil depositions have been shredded. They would be fascinating interviews. The media has done a good job swimming in the pool but they've been in the shallow end playing with floaty toys. As for Ed, he is not qualified to address the issue because he has a singularly incurious mind as to all possible leads that don't support his insistence that a First Grader wrote the anthrax letters.
At the same time, Paul Keim should ask Dave Franz whether the anthrax could have been stolen from SRI in Frederick.
http://caseclosedbylewweinstein.wordpress.com/2010/05/25/newly-released-ivins-emails-show-that-no-record-was-kept-of-transfers-to-former-zawahiri-associate-because-it-was-done-at-usamriid/
Anonymous wrote: "Dr. Ivins explained that it was NOT standard practice to record such transfers when done at USAMRIID. Yet Ed Lake pretends that it was."
ReplyDeleteYou are taking a comment by Ivins out of context and distorting it to fit your beliefs.
The FACTS say that every sample taken from flask RMR-1029 was recorded. If it wasn't, the numbers on the log wouldn't add up. Investigators noticed a MATH ERROR because the numbers did not add up in that one instance.
RMR-1029 was created for a specific series of tests. It was a VERY VALUABLE COLLECTION. They did not just give out samples willy-nilly.
Page 12 of NAS CD FBI document B3D1.pdf says that the FBI repository received 606 samples of the Ames strain from USAMRIID, 262 from one researcher and 314 from another, with the rest being from the remaining USAMRIID researchers.
So, there were LOTS of samples of Ames around USAMRIID, BUT, there were only 8 samples that contained the mutations that were in flask RMR-1029. That also PROVES that samples from RMR-1020 were NOT given out willy-nilly as you suggest.
You are distorting the facts to make them fit your theory.
Ed
Indeed, Ed, we know that Dr. Ivins doctored the inventory record by whiting out "1412" -- to conceal that it previously had been in Building 1412 rather than 1425. I obtained both copies (before and after Dr. Ivins' redaction) and uploaded them.
ReplyDeleteUnited States Attorney mistakenly premised his Ivins Theory on the false claim it was only ever stored in Building 1425 -- dramatically affecting those who had ready access.
Anonymous wrote: "we know that Dr. Ivins doctored the inventory record by whiting out "1412"
ReplyDeleteNo, we do NOT know that. We know that flask RMR-1029 was originally planned to be stored in building 1412, and the inventory record was written that way. But, then they decided to store it in building 1425, so the inventory record was changed.
The inventory record was NOT "doctored." That's just another example of you distorting the facts to make them fit your beliefs.
BTW, I deleted the irrelevant comment you made about questions you want the GAO to answer. You post enough of such things on Lew's site. There's no need to post them here, too.
Ed
I don't know if Richard Rowley is still reading this blog, but this discussion with "Anonymous" shows how important it is to discuss FACTS.
ReplyDelete"Anonymous" argued that Ivins said that they didn't keep track of samples of Ames that were transferred around within USAMRIID.
It is a FACT that Ivins said that. "Anonymous" pointed to the email where Ivins wrote that.
However, it is also a FACT that the numbers on the inventory record for flask RMR-1029 add up. That FACT, therefore, says flask RMR-1029 was an exception to what Ivins wrote in his email.
It's also a FACT that there were 606 samples of Ames found at USAMRIID and put into the FBI repository. But it's another FACT only SEVEN of those samples contained the morphs that were in flask RMR-1029.
Therefore the FACTS say that Ivins' comment did NOT apply to flask RMR-1029.
And, "Anonymous's" opinion that it did apply was shown to be NONSENSE by looking at the FACTS.
Ed
Mr. Rowley,
ReplyDeleteIn my comment above, I neglected to mention that "Anonymous's" belief was VERY CRITICAL to his entire theory, since it supposedly explained how al Qaeda got their hands on a sample from flask RMR-1029.
So, shooting down that BELIEF means a great deal more than finding out that school starts in August, not in September, which was a minor error in FACTS which changed NOTHING about my hypothesis.
Ed
Ed, do you know how much virulent Ames was used in the DARPA-funded research done at USAMRIID with the University of Michigan researchers in May 1998? No? Is that because you again did not read the material? How much was needed to be taken out of whatever Ivins' flask it came from? Was it taken and used directly or was it regrown?
ReplyDeleteWhat about the DARPA researchers at SRI in Frederick. 1 ml? 5 ml? How much was needed?
Anonymous asked: "Ed, do you know how much virulent Ames was used in the DARPA-funded research done at USAMRIID with the University of Michigan researchers in May 1998?"
ReplyDeleteWho cares? How is this relevant to the anthrax attacks of 2001?
The facts say that the spores in the envelopes were spores from plates that Ivins inoculated to test animal doses. He kept the plates in autoclave bags for weeks, allowing the cultures to grow until they covered the plates. Then he harvested what was on the plates.
What DARPA researchers did is irrelevant.
How much DARPA needed to do something is irrelevant.
If you believe this information IS relevant, explain WHY you believe it is relevant. It appears that you believe it's relevant only because your theory is obvious nonsense if it isn't relevant.
Ed
Ed has specifically premised his argument that Dr. Ivins' report that transfers at RIID were not record by arguing that the numbers "added up". (He views the 100 ml discrepancy as a mathematical error).
ReplyDeleteThe DARPA research done at the B3 in May 1998 involved taking a smidgeon of the virulent Ames and putting it a petri dish to see if the decontamination agent killed it. Ed does not know the quantity of that smidgeon. And yet he assumes that the smidgeon was a quantity that would throw off the record-keeping. Ed who substitutes capitalization for actual knowledge of the facts by reading the relevant material. Of course, an infinite quantity can be grown from a smidgeon.
The work with virulent Ames was done under Biolevel-3 and the Linscott were required to receive anthrax and plague vaccinations in advance of the BL-3 work.
ReplyDeletehttp://caseclosedbylewweinstein.wordpress.com/2011/11/14/the-work-with-virulent-ames-was-done-under-biolevel-3-and-the-university-of-michigan-researchers-working-with-dr-ivins-fellows-and-linscott-were-required-to-receive-anthrax-and-plague-vaccinations/
So what?
DeleteDid the foreign scientist from Egypt whose friends were recruited by Dr. Ayman Zawahiri (and who taught microbiology by Dr. Zawahiri's sister) visiting from University of Michigan have his own access into the B3 suite or did someone have to let him in? Dr. Ivins could not recall.
ReplyDeletehttp://caseclosedbylewweinstein.wordpress.com/2011/12/12/did-the-foreign-scientist-from-egypt-visiting-from-university-of-michigan-have-his-own-access-into-the-b3-suite-or-did-someone-have-to-let-him-in-dr-ivins-could-not-recall/
Why is this relevant? Do you just assume that it's relevant because your case makes no sense if it is not relevant?
DeleteEd
Who gave the referenced tour to the University of Michigan researchers scheduled to be at USAMRIID from about April 27, 1998 – May 8, 1998?
ReplyDeletehttp://caseclosedbylewweinstein.wordpress.com/2011/12/29/who-gave-the-referenced-tour-to-the-university-of-michigan-researchers-scheduled-to-be-at-usamriid-from-about-april-27-1998-may-8-1998/
Who cares? Explain the relevancy.
DeleteAnonymous,
ReplyDeleteYour arguments are false. Your arguments are nonsense.
The 100 ml discrepancy IS a mathematical error. 994 - 6 = 988 NOT 888.
No one measured the contents of the flask after every removal. The log was the way they determined how much was left. It was assumed to be accurate.
There is absolutely NO reason to believe DARPA borrowed a "smidgeon" from flask RMR-1029. There was NO REASON to use a sample from flask RMR-1029. The FACTS say that the contents of RMR-1029 were too valuable to be used for any purpose other than the tests for which they were created. There were hundreds of other samples of Ames around. The FACTS say that no samples were taken from flask RMR-1029 prior to September 17, 1998.
Ed
The FBI produced these documents about the University of Michigan research with virulent Ames done at the USAMRIID B3 and supervised by Dr. Ivins.
ReplyDeletehttp://caseclosedbylewweinstein.wordpress.com/2010/03/01/from-dxer-documents-related-to-university-of-michigan/
Who cares? Explain the relevancy.
DeleteI'm just going to delete your posts of irrelevant material from here on.
ReplyDeleteYou're wasting my time with irrelevant questions and irrelevant material.
You evidently just assume it's relevant because your theory is nonsense if it isn't relevant.
You need to show RELEVANCE before any of this stuff is of any use. You're just wasting my time. So, everything along this same line will be simply deleted after this point.
Ed
Thanks for your comments of today (June 21st): I found them very entertaining in a playful way! Thanks for link too!
ReplyDeleteMr. Rowley,
ReplyDeleteI don't know if you've seen it, but on my site I have a comic strip called "The Story of Suzy The Spore." Click HERE.
Ed
Hello Mr Lake.
ReplyDelete+ I keep looking for articles on the profile of the murderer of anthrax as the links I show you. I think the initial idea of the lone murderer the FBI has not changed, and you defend the existence of a second person involved.
"Loner Likely Sent Anthrax, FBI Says"
November 10, 2001|ERIC LICHTBLAU and MEGAN GARVEY | TIMES STAFF WRITERS
http://articles.latimes.com/2001/nov/10/news/mn-2459
"FBI profiler: We will catch anthrax mailer"
November 17, 2001 By Susan Candiotti and Bill Mears CNN
http://edition.cnn.com/2001/US/11/16/anthrax.profiler/index.html
+ There are things here that surprised me:
- Ivins was a member of the American Red Cross and a musician at his church, St. John the Evangelist Roman Catholic Church.he was an avid juggler and founder of the Frederick Jugglers, and he also played keyboards in a Celtic band and would often compose and play songs for coworkers who were moving to new jobs.
He is survived by his wife (for 33 years until his death), a son and daughter, and two brothers.
- People remembers a man who wore slightly ill-fitting trousers that revealed his white socks -- a man who never grew out of habits from his years as a graduate student.
- Ivins, 62, worked for more than 30 years as an anthrax researcher at Fort Detrick, Maryland, home of the U.S. Army's Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases. He co-wrote a paper only weeks ago outlining the effects of a drug on anthrax in mice, one of dozens of papers in his career.
- He went voluntarily to the doctor and followed the prescribed treatment.
- Ivins passed a polygraph-assisted interrogation (also known as a "lie detector test") in which he was questioned about his possible participation in the anthrax attacks.
- The FBI claims that because anthrax spores were found in a postal drop box located 300 feet (91 m) away from Princeton University's Kappa Kappa Gamma storage facility that the anthrax laced letters had been mailed from that drop box.
- Ivins tormented a sorority member at the University of North Carolina named Nancy Haigwood. Ivins stole her notebook, which documented her research for her doctoral studies, and vandalized her residence.
- His long hours in Suite B3 at that time broke his normal work pattern.
- Duley alleged a "detailed homicidal plan" to kill his co-workers after learning he was going to be indicted on capital murder charges and stated that, upon hearing of his possible indictment, Ivins had purchased a gun and a bulletproof vest. Ivins was subsequently committed for psychiatric evaluation, and his home was raided by federal agents who confiscated ammunition and a bulletproof vest.He was released from his committal on July 24, five days before his death.
-Ivins killed himself with the usual method in women, like Cleopatra, not as you would a man ,like Mark Antony, with his sword (weapon).
+ These things surprise me.
- Why do specialists agree that the murderer was not trying to kill anybody? Because he taped the envelopes tightly, and as of September nobody expected that the spores could leak through envelopes. Moreover, each of the letters that has been recovered announced that the substance was anthrax and advised the recipient to take antibiotics.
+ What if all data were correct?
+ What if Dr. Ivins was guilty and innocent at the same time, and for the oldest reason in the world?
- I would start by changing the name of the case: "The strange case of the poisoner who warned their victims. and he killed who did not want to kill"
- Will you allow me to tell you a short tale?
Bye.
"No, no! the drink, the drink! O my dear Hamlet!
DeleteThe drink, the drink! I am poison'd. [Dies.]"
-- Gertrude, in Hamlet, Queen of Denmark
Joseph,
DeleteThe article today about Alan Turing's suicide was interesting.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18561092
Alan Turing: Inquest's suicide verdict 'not supportable'
By Roland Pease
BBC Radio Science Unit
"The thing is to tell the truth in so far as we know it, and not to speculate."
Mr. Lake engages in much speculation and conjecture and instead conclusions should be limited to facts -- and more facts developed.
Hello mr anonymus.
Delete"Macbeth", Act 4 - Scene 1. Line 80 -81 & line 92 to 94.
(Enter the three witches)
80- The power of man, for none of woman born
81- Shall harm Mcbeth.
92- Macbeth shall never vanquish´d be until
93- Great Birnam wood to high Dunsinane hill
94- Shall come against him.
+ Mr. lake just does what any seeker of truth do. And the best way to test an idea or fact to any criticism is to make public and allow people to opine.
+Turing
- Alan Turing as a man who saved the state and then was destroyed by the state. I liked seeing Derek Jacobi playing Alan Turing in the movie "Breaking the Code", he explains his work on this link:
http://www.turing.org.uk/turing/scrapbook/btc.html
- "Breaking the Code" is a tv play, not a documentary. The dialogues and scenes are mostly invented, and in many ways differ from what actually happened.I do not know if he committed suicide or was murdered but it is a tragedy.
Joseph from Spain wrote: "you defend the existence of a second person involved"
ReplyDeleteThe "second person" was not "involved." Were the mailmen who delivered the letters involved? They carried the letters to their destination. People who help but who are totally unaware that a crime is being committed are not "involved" in the crime.
"The FBI claims that because anthrax spores were found in a postal drop box located 300 feet (91 m) away from Princeton University's Kappa Kappa Gamma storage facility that the anthrax laced letters had been mailed from that drop box."
In reality, the mailbox was 175 feet (53 m) from the KKG office. And they found anthrax spores in that mailbox. It was the only mailbox out of hundreds they tested that contained spores. And, they found the spores years before Ivins became a suspect and even more years before his connection to the KKG sorority was known.
"What if Dr. Ivins was guilty and innocent at the same time, and for the oldest reason in the world?"
He committed a terrorist act that he knew was a terrorist act. He was going to be tried for terrorism. Through his carelessness, he killed 5 people while committing that felony. The fact that he didn't really mean to kill anyone would have been irrelevant in the eyes of the law.
"Ivins killed himself with the usual method in women, like Cleopatra, not as you would a man ,like Mark Antony, with his sword (weapon)."
He killed himself by overdosing on acetaminophen, which is a terrible way to die. Acetaminophen destroys the liver. He took Tylenol PM probably hoping to sleep through the agony. His wife found him on the bathroom floor lying in his own urine.
Four months earlier, on March 19, 2008, Ivins had tried to commit suicide by overdosing on Valium. He failed. He probably hoped to sleep through that suicide, too.
"upon hearing of his possible indictment, Ivins had purchased a gun and a bulletproof vest."
Bruce Ivins owned a bunch of guns, but they were all confiscated by the FBI on the night of November 1-2, 2007. In July 2008, he had no gun but said he planned to borrow a gun from his son to shoot people at USAMRIID.
Ed
Hello mr Lake.
DeleteIt seems that the wikipedia article about Ivins is wrong:
+ "In reality, the mailbox was 175 feet (53 m) from the KKG office. And they found anthrax spores in that mailbox. It was the only mailbox out of hundreds they tested that contained spores. And, they found the spores years before Ivins became a suspect and even more years before his connection to the KKG sorority was known."
- The problem is that someone so CAREFUL to conceal his no relationship with the delivery of anthrax, the letters written by children, he establishes a relationship with the poison through a specific place related to himself...... unless someone wants to incriminate him.
+ The "bulletproof vest" is a shield, a defense. A defense for a fight. But against whom Ivins was going to fight? and survive ...... I think that Ivins was looking for someone guilty of something.
+You said:
"He committed a terrorist act that he knew was a terrorist act. He was going to be tried for terrorism. Through his carelessness, he killed 5 people while committing that felony. The fact that he didn't really mean to kill anyone would have been irrelevant in the eyes of the law."
+ I think the correct word is POISONING. Poisoning is something un-American according to an article from National Geographic. "Terror" is something that is achieved with the poison, but the terrorists also kill their targets (and kill an old lady retired and postal employees is something not wanted). The aim of the poisoner is to get attention, make them want to chase you and find you. Find Ivins.
+ And the most surprising is a poisoner who likes playing the piano in public and juggling. This is not the profile of a poisoner.
Bye.
Joseph from Spain wrote: "The problem is that someone so CAREFUL to conceal his no relationship with the delivery of anthrax, the letters written by children, he establishes a relationship with the poison through a specific place related to himself"
ReplyDeleteIvins had no way of knowing that spores would be found in that mailbox. In fact, he taped the envelopes shut so that no spores would escape. He believed that there was no way anyone could connect him to the mailbox. He drove nearly 200 miles to make sure no one would connect him to the scene of the crime.
Criminals MAKE MISTAKES. That's how they are caught.
"The "bulletproof vest" is a shield, a defense."
He apparently wanted to stay alive long enough to kill a lot of people. If he didn't wear a bulletproof vest, he wouldn't be able to kill as many people before he was fatally wounded himself - by guards. It was a military installation.
"And the most surprising is a poisoner who likes playing the piano in public and juggling. This is not the profile of a poisoner."
It's the profile of THIS poisoner. He apparently thought that taking 70 tablets of a pain-killer would prevent a lot of pain while he was dying.
He used anthrax in the letters because he wanted funding for research to find a new anthrax vaccine.
You seem to be mixing together the "poison" of anthrax spores he used to get funding for his projects and the "poison" of the acetaminophen he used to kill himself.
Your reasoning jumbles the facts and makes no sense.
Ed
Hello mr Lake:
Delete+ The world's most powerful drug is the applause of the audience.
+ My father liked to sing in the church choir, later told people how well they sang and he was happy. For a normal person or a scientist to be president of the local Red Cross, playing in public in the Church and found a juggling club is as close to the professional world of spectacle and entertainment.
+ If you have any actor friend he will be able to explain the effect of applause.
+ The EGO of Mr Ivins would be strengthened and their sense of inferiority appeased.
A poisoners do not like the public: they prefer to consider them as people who sacrifice for a person or the world, and their behavior is different according to the FBI:
FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin,The / August, 2004,said:
"Poisoning, of course, differs considerably from many other crimes, frequently committed in uncontrolled passion and in the heat of the moment. The innate character of the crime of homicidal poisoning demands subterfuge, cunning, and, what is equally important, usually a period of careful planning, and also not infrequently the repetition of the act of administering poison.... Its characteristic being one of premeditation, it is a method of murder, which, therefore, cannot be the subject of extenuation as some other forms of killing can."
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_8_73/ai_n6232019/
+ Playing the piano requires passion and Mr. Ivins has too much passion ....and interest related to women and sorority.
Joseph from Spain,
DeleteI'm not certain I understand what you're trying to say, but the facts say without any doubt that Ivins committed suicide by overdosing on acetaminophen, so it doesn't make any difference what your father said or what "normal" poisoners do.
And you keep seeming to suggest that anthrax is a poison, and Ivins wouldn't use a "poison" to kill people. Ivins had a MOTIVE to use anthrax. He had no motive to use anything else. So, your reasoning makes no sense whatsoever.
Ed
Joseph of Spain,
ReplyDeleteClick HERE for statistics regarding suicides in America. It says,
56.8% of male suicides involve guns.
34.4% of female suicides involve guns.
23.4% of male suicides involve strangulation or suffocation.
19.7% of female suicides involve strangulation or suffocation.
12.5% of male suicides involve poisons.
37.8% of female suicides involve poisons.
So, Ivins didn't commit suicide the most common way a male commits suicide, but he wasn't the only male in history to commit suicide by taking a poison. (He liked to dress up in female clothing, so maybe that aspect of his personality picked the suicide method.)
Ed
Hello mr Lake.
Delete+ I accept the fact that Ivins killed himself, but is the method used is what worries me: women are poisoned not to destroy their physical appearance, they can look beautiful in death, and not to smudge the room in which will be found. His EGO does not allow ugly or horrible.
.... But the problem of poisoning is that the body defends itself when someone dies vomiting and urinary and anal sphincters the let out body fluids. A Hollywood actress decided to commit suicide in the most beautiful in the world and ended with his head in the water: LUPE VELEZ.
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2275/did-lupe-v-lez-really-drown-in-the-toilet
+ Even in "FRASIER" is made mention of this event:
-In the first episode of the sitcom Frasier, "The Good Son", Frasier Crane's producer Roz Doyle tries to improve Frasier's outlook on his life by telling him the story of Lupe Vélez, "last seen with her head in the toilet". Apparently according to Roz, the pills she had taken did not mix well with "the enchilada combo plate she sadly chose as her last meal." When Frasier asks how her story is supposed to make him feel better, Roz responds that sometimes things don't go the way we want them to, but can work out in the end, anyway. She adds, "All she wanted was to be remembered. Will you ever forget that story?".
+ Ivins EGO not let you do otherwise, he saw what the FBI did to Hatfill and I guess he could not defend his honor, good name and reputation.
+ Something like defending Mr.LAWRENCE SELLIN, UPI Outside View Commentator,April 22, 2010:
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/Analysis/Outside-View/2010/04/22/Outside-View-Anthrax-letters-Was-Bruce-Ivins-hounded-to-death/UPI-33341271930820/
.... But I agree that Mr Ivins is guilty & innocent and is related to the anthrax poisoning by the oldest reason in the world: A woman.
Joseph of Spain,
DeleteThere is no doubt that Ivins bought Tylenol tablets and used them to kill himself.
So, it doesn't matter what other people normally do or why they do it. Your arguments seem off-topic and pointless.
Ed
Hello Mr Lake.
Delete+ Yes, Mr Ivins committed suicide, but there are several reasons for suicide and each has a way to express ..
+ If Mr. Hatfill killed himself then now the FBI would be saying he was guilty and a panel of experts would defend this idea.
+ Mr. Ivins was weaker than Mr. Hatfill.
+ The ego of Mr. Ivins was unstable and weak, he needs an audience applaud him, he needs social support. Without that social recognition mr Ivins is a nobody. He never had the support of his mother, so he is unable to accept rejection and seeking social recognition playing the piano in church, juggling tricks, activity in the Red Cross ......And the FBI was going to end this fantasy world that supported his weak ego.
+ For that reason Mr Ivins could not recognize the theft of Anthrax in his laboratory. The extraordinary work of Mr Ivins in the laboratory was due to PANIC. He had no reason to work so much in so short time, unless he had to hide a robbery and replace anthrax and modify files and other documents.
+ He got it and then began the tragedy:
- The thief became poisoner and Mr. Ivins could have prevented this: Recognizing the robbery, but he became an unexpected accomplice hiding evidences and obstructing the police investigation.
- His ego will not allow him to do anything.
..... and so ends my tale. Nothing more.
Bye from Spain.
Bye bye.
DeleteEd
The above statistics were for 2004. In 2005, 12.0% of male suicides involved poisons, and 39.1% of female suicides involved poisons. Down for males, up for females when compared to 2004.
ReplyDeleteEd
Hello mr Lake.
Delete....then why women choose a method and men another method?. I think I saw the answer in an episode of BONES, women try to respect their physical appearance and they are worry about the state of the room after his mortal act.
+ The ego is also involved in the death. So Mr Ivins, he cares about himself, is narcissistic, and he cares what others think of him.
End.
Joseph from Spain,
ReplyDeleteI don't think opinions about what Ivins did compared to what "the average person" does can be anything more than personal opinions.
I prefer to discuss facts.
Ed
Hello Mr Lake
ReplyDelete-I prefer easy solutions.
-My mother says I'm lazy.
-I hope I have distracted you from the followers of the theory of Al Qaeda.
Good luck, the facts never lie. It is true.